Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:07 Shirt's sermon Q and a pastor Michael, here with you. I'm with pastor Craig
Speaker 2 00:00:11 And we in May, 2021 preached a sermon on stewardship and Craig, here's one of the questions that came out of this. How much should I tie? I mean, there's an assumption there, which is we should tie, but is there a percentage? So let's talk about what we know. Um, there's a difference between the old covenant and the new covenant offering. Well, what does ties mean? A 10th literally, you know, so, but, uh, I mean, is that in the new Testament? That's how,
Speaker 3 00:00:41 When I grew up, my parents said you should give a 10th, that's a title, give a 10th. So whatever your income is, give a 10. That's what they said. I don't know if I agree
Speaker 2 00:00:49 With that for him gave a 10th, but that was, you could say that was pre law. It was definitely, I mean that like before the law was even given it that some people say that's like a universal number because it was not bound by lobbyists.
Speaker 3 00:01:01 And if you look at, after the law, when Israel was actually in the promise land and they were collecting tides, once you added everything that they were giving up, it was like over 30%. It
Speaker 2 00:01:09 Was crazy. Not the ends, not that wasn't including their freewill offerings to, so, um, how much should I type? Is there a new covenant, new Testament number assigned?
Speaker 3 00:01:21 No, not unless, you know, something I don't, but I can't think of a single thing. Another Bible you're reading every,
Speaker 2 00:01:26 Every numerical, like restriction is old Testament focused. Yeah. So, um, how, so if I'm thinking about, let's say I make a hundred thousand dollars a year, what percentage do I tie? How do I even go about figuring out what is generous? What does generous mean for me?
Speaker 3 00:01:45 Okay, so that's the bottom line, right? You should be generous. You have been here. Let me read you the verse one. This is one of my favorite about this very topic in second Corinthians nine in verse 11, it says you will be enriched in every way to be generous in every way, which through us will produce Thanksgiving to God. So there's a, there's, there's a methodology. We're not just generous because God wants you to be generous. We're generous because there's a goal. And the goal is when you're generous, people give thanks. Yeah. It transforms us. It transforms the people you give to. Yeah. I was in a situation where I lost my job and somebody was so generous to us every once in a while we called them smiley face. And every once in a while I would go to my mailbox and there would be an envelope with a smiley face on it.
Speaker 3 00:02:30 And I would pull it out of the, out of the box. The first time I saw it, I didn't know. I didn't know a lot of it was empty and I would see if there's any dust in there. Anything I shouldn't be breathing, but I pulled it up and there was a check in there for a thousand dollars and we were just like blown away. It couldn't come at a better time. Yeah. So I, uh, I would go into the mailbox every couple of months and there'd be another checkout there to this day. I don't know who gave that money to us, but it was me when one of these days I hope to find out. But, uh, we, we would call everybody into the kitchen. When we see the smiley face, we call it people and the girls in the kitchen we'd stand around, we'd open the envelope together and we would pray and give thanks to God.
Speaker 3 00:03:10 That is a direct, uh, the reason we'd done is because out of the, somebody was being generous to us and it was producing Thanksgiving to God for us. So how much should I give you? Should, you should give generously. I mean, there's no amount that God says to get Jesus commends, the woman for giving a might, you know, a couple of pennies. Yeah. Um, and he doesn't commend other people for given like tons of money. It, I don't think that has anything to do with it. I think what it has to do with is where's your heart. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:03:37 So practically speaking,
Speaker 2 00:03:40 How do I go about if I am a Christian and I'm like, God, I'm gonna get a hundred thousand dollars and you can have a hundred thousand dollars and be rich, give a hundred thousand dollars to be poor. Just depends on how you handle the money. Um, how do I know what God wants me to give?
Speaker 3 00:03:56 So you've done this before people have come to you. They're a brand new believer and they're going, okay. I want to start this, this activity of giving. What do you tell them?
Speaker 2 00:04:04 Um, I, if they're single, I always have the same conversation. What is the most amount of money that you would be comfortable giving right now on a monthly basis? Right? Start there, um, and write down on a piece of paper and I usually get their finances with them. Like I'm, I'm in four minutes, I'm meeting a couple to talk about their finances. It's very normal conversations, what I do on a regular basis. And so, um, and so I'd say, okay, what's the most amount and start there. And usually it's interesting. Uh, most people will, uh, surprise themselves. Um, sometimes there's surprises about cheap. They're sometimes they're surprised how generous they are now with a couple of what I would do is I would say, um, I want both of you to go home and I want you to take at least a week. And I want you to pray about this.
Speaker 2 00:04:43 I want you to spend at least five minutes every day, um, asking God, one question, um, how much do you want me to tie? And then just be silent and just, just every day for a week. And then I want you to note the number together. You both write it down on a piece of paper. Okay. And you don't, you don't tell each other. And then both of you open each other's piece of paper and whoever's a higher number. You do that now. Usually it's the woman and the man is like, what? You know, it's almost always, it's a very funny, very got to try that. I've never done that one. So like, uh, but I think the point is you take some time and you pray and if you're single, you don't have a spouse that you're accountable to, but if you are married, um, like having a spouse, Eric, cause it's both of you, this is your joint income.
Speaker 2 00:05:23 It's both of your times, you know? Um, and so that's typically how I do it, but I think the most important part is pray about it. Have it clear conscience, um, revisit it regularly. So every six months do the same, you know, do the same thing. And then, um, I think there should be an everybody's finances. Um, just a margin category where you have the ability to respond to real needs. Um, so there's somebody in your life. There's a neighbor. Um, you know, somebody needs a meal or a bunch of meals. Um, I think it's wise for somebody to set, set aside two to 5% of their income, um, depending how much they make, um, just for above and beyond generosity. And so this is where the Christian life doesn't spend a hundred percent of our money on ourselves. We give God our first fruits.
Speaker 2 00:06:04 We pray about that again. Let's say it could be 30%. It could be 50. It could be to whatever, you know what I mean? Um, I don't really have a lot of judgment on it, but the next night, what let's say it's 10%, the next 90% does not mean that I just go spend everything on me. Like we have savings. When we think about the future. I think about margin generosity. I think about there are all these things that the Christians prioritize, but American culture basically says, uh, if you have to give, give the last, but all of it's yours, you know? Right.
Speaker 3 00:06:32 That's very interesting. Um, a couple of things I love, I love what you said. Um, have a diverse portfolio. I tell people have a diverse portfolio. You do not want to only be given to the church and call it a day. Um, there are needs all over the world. There are needs in your own community. They're special needs. And if you're, if you're so much in debt that you can't give Satan's one, a victory. I'll totally. So we are meant to be generous, not just to the church. And we're not saying that by any means, but that needs to be a regular part of your giving. And the second part I got out of that is a, it needs to be off the front end, not the back end, which I love that. So plan ahead. Don't let this take you by surprise. Now let me ask you one more question. Yeah. Um, if, if, if I'm married to my spouse and we agreed to give a certain amount of yeah. If I'm married to my spouse. Yeah. Uh, we agree. You're good. But uh, financial difficulties hit us. How do we, or can we change our giving?
Speaker 2 00:07:25 Yep. So as I've sat down with couples and financial difficulty, um, here are a couple of things that almost never ceased to stop. Um, almost every couple who does or doesn't have financial difficulty has spending rhythms that are very much on themselves. So it is rare by the way. So if you're a coffee drinker, it's very rare that a couple who are in debt or find themselves like in dire straits, stopped drinking coffee at Starbucks. It's very rare if they are eat out, restaurant, eat, whatever people eat out at restaurants, restaurants that they're going to restaurants, eat restaurants, don't eat restaurant, um, that, that they're going to stop. Yeah. Um, they might cut it in half. They're still going to do it. It's a rhythm, it's a rhythm. So here's what I find. Um, when, when I am, when I'm in dire straits, if my first, the first part of my money that I spend is to giving, uh, I typically am not going to mess with that.
Speaker 2 00:08:26 Um, but I tell people though, what I find though, is that people don't put that first. That's last. It's the first thing to go. First thing to go. Last thing to go are the indulgences. And what I would just say is, I think that's backwards. If tithing is first, then that's the last thing to go. Um, now if you're in dire straights, it's okay. Talk to your pastor. It's fine. I, I am confident if you sat down with me and said, we're broke, we're in debt. We're, we're putting it. We're not going on crazy vacations. We we've stopped all these indulgences. We need to get this thing. Right. Um, I have a pastor, if he's a decent man is going to look at you and say, um, you know, thank you for telling us, take six months off, apply all of that to your debt, make sure you're not indulging yourself.
Speaker 2 00:09:03 Yeah. And, um, and then let's start a re-engagement program for you. And let's also look at who the missionaries you're supporting, what are the ministries that you're coming alongside of? Let's let's have conversations with all of them so that we can get on the same page so that no, one's surprised by this, but also letting them know that you have a plan, you know? And, and so I would just say intentionality, um, communication, but also make sure that you're not indulging yourself when you have no money, uh, at the expense of giving God your first name. Yeah. It's
Speaker 3 00:09:30 Time to grow up, right? Yeah. You gotta be an adult and a part of being an adult that and that I have found. And, and I'm sure I'm not the most unusual person in the room is, um, fund first, what you love first. So if you love the gospel, I would say fund that fund, the gospel, do something, even if you've got to cut back because of finances, but make sure you're funding it in some way. This is again, I think why Jesus said where your treasure is, is where your heart. Well,
Speaker 2 00:09:56 I, I think most people, ourselves included love ourselves. And so it's a really easy to fund myself. And, but God's like, Hey, like me first, you second, you know? And it does, it forms your hearts, you know? It's
Speaker 3 00:10:08 Yeah, it does. It does form your heart. That's a good way to put it. What you give, how you give, what you love will form your heart. This is why Jesus said treasure before heart, your treasures, where you give will form, what kind of heart you have.
Speaker 1 00:10:20 What's a sermon. That's a big sermon. We should give that one day, this Sunday a series. Okay. All right. Well, thank you for joining us. We've got more questions on tithing, giving, offering all that kind of stuff coming at you. So thank you for joining us today and hope this helps you bring God glory with your finances and process this in a way that is biblical.
