Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:07 Welcome to village church, sermon Q and a pastor Michael, here with you and I am in the seat,
Speaker 1 00:00:10 Pastor Alex and pastor Craig. And so we preached, uh, by we, I mean, Alex preach a sermon for all of us, uh, on August 8th, 2021. And we're not serious on the tabernacle on about the skills, uh, that were acquired. And we find this interesting passage where there's a guy named Bezalel and the holy spirit gives Bezalel this unbelievable skill and craftsmanship, whatever it is, he seems to be maybe once in a nation kind of guy where people looked at him and said only God could kind of do that through you. So, um, the question for us is how does the holy spirit make me more skillful? So I want you to imagine we're, we're kind of counseling somebody and, uh, maybe, maybe they have this passion for something. And, uh, they're reading this Bezalel guy and they're like, I want that. I want to be as good as him. And yet the scripture say no, but that was the spirit of God, uniquely taking probably his job that he did for living and then making it so great that people recognized him. All right. So we talked about three things. Okay. So Alex, I'm gonna start with you on this one. Um, you have this, you have a young person say they're 23 years old. They have a skill. They want to grow it. What, what's the first thing you would say to them?
Speaker 2 00:01:22 Yeah. So, um, first of all, everybody, uh, same story. We all have development of personality. We all have development of skills through our experiences. That's, that's true of everybody. But then for Christians in particular, when we believe we have the holy spirit come upon us, we have filling and dwelling ceiling. And so the holy spirit I wanted to tell this person, the first thing is that, uh, the spirit will amplify your learning and your passion and your fruit as you pour yourself into God's kingdom, right? Come behind the things that he has already ordained in your life and amplify them because you're using them for
Speaker 1 00:02:02 His purpose. Right? So what if, what if I am a guitarist? Yes. And I am like, want to be really, really good for God for his kingdom, but that's not what the Lord wants for me. Like, well, should I expect that? Just because my motivations are good, that he's going to grow my gift.
Speaker 3 00:02:19 Well, I mean, you didn't practice it. You got ready to read it aloud through that. Well, so I think I'm on the spot a little bit. No, no, that's good. So,
Speaker 2 00:02:25 Uh, like you, you can still choose to grow your gift whether or not God, you know, once it for you, right? Like you could, you could invest energy, you could go get guitar lessons and get better and that kind of stuff. But it's interesting. How would you discover though that, that God doesn't want you? I didn't, I did not even, no.
Speaker 3 00:02:45 Let me, let me, like, let me tell you this is, I think I know what story you're going to
Speaker 1 00:02:48 Tell me. Uh, maybe we'll see. I, I tell the same three stories over and over again. So, but what I, I was 19 20, 21. Um, I was a very skilled guitarist and a really worship leader, but here's my secret. I never sang. I led the team. I worked with the musicians and the singers. I would coordinate everything and I would do all the talking and I would always have singers with me because I'm terrible at that.
Speaker 3 00:03:13 So one, one, so it's so bad and I keep tracking here
Speaker 1 00:03:17 The notes, but I can't make this happen
Speaker 3 00:03:20 Really bad dude. So leaving my wife in the car, my kids are like stop singing. And every once in a while I hit a note, I feel really good about it. So this guy
Speaker 1 00:03:31 Named Tom, we were at a vineyard church in Fort Wayne, Indiana. And, uh, Tom comes up to me. It's a very charismatic church. I cashless, I had to be 19 or 20 and not know that. And, uh, he comes up to me and, uh, I was leading a, with one of their bands. And, uh, again, he was watching this happen and he goes, I need, I need to lay hands on your throat. And, uh, and I was like, well, okay. And he's, he's like, what do you want to do? And I was like, I would just love to lead worship for the rest of my life, but I, the worst singer in the planet. And apparently you can't leave worship. Like, I don't know at a church other than like a college group, if you can't sing, you know? And it's like, and so he literally laid hands on my throat and prayed for healing over my voice.
Speaker 1 00:04:11 True story. Um, nothing happened. And I remember for a moment, I was like, maybe this is the day. Maybe this is the story I taught where God gets all the glory. And, uh, I had no ambition to teach. Cause I could not tell us about 27 years old standing in front of a group of people and speak without quivering. It was devastating. It was actually one of the most, uh, frustrating weaknesses that I had. Like, so in my brain speaking ministry out, right. Um, leading in a worship team, I could do that. Yeah. And so, um, he didn't hit me and uh, the Lord did not want me to be a worship pastor, but doggone it like everyone around me was saying, you should go down the worship pastor route. But if we can work with your voice, most
Speaker 2 00:04:54 Of the skills, but not the voice, not the voice. And
Speaker 1 00:04:57 So the people of God around me were saying, no, like they
Speaker 0 00:05:01 Were saying, yeah, feed that thing because you're so good at. But the spirit
Speaker 1 00:05:03 Of God was like, that's actually not what I want for you. Right. And I had no
Speaker 0 00:05:07 Category. Lord want me to talk in front of people and that's a whole different
Speaker 1 00:05:12 Story. And I remember, I remember the Sunday when all the nerves for the first time went away, I was 20. So it was when, um, there was closer line of sight to me becoming the interim lead pastor here. And I was like, oh, I was like, God, I cannot do this. Like, I don't want to humiliate myself. And it was like this weakness that he played to me with, um, probably just, uh, you know, relying
Speaker 4 00:05:32 On him. Nobody laid their hands on you to get you over that one.
Speaker 1 00:05:35 No, I look, you have no idea how stupid I looked on the basis. Like the pastors
Speaker 3 00:05:39 Would be like, if you want to get up and do announcements, I'm like sweating. Terrible. All right. So, okay. So slowly, let's talk about that. Sorry. What were we talking about? You still from, from
Speaker 2 00:05:59 22 or whenever this guy laid hands on your throat or whatever, you still used, your leadership skills in a band setting, you still use your awareness of music. You still use your communication gifts and those contexts and the spirits still used it to glorify
Speaker 1 00:06:13 God. Like the spirit. Wasn't like, oh, I hate Michael for doing that. But I wanted it to be so much more my will was not the Spirit's Will's spirit apparently had a plan for me to talk for a living. Yeah. Rather than strung for living. So,
Speaker 2 00:06:30 And um, like how did, like, when did you stop playing guitar altogether? Uh, it was 2009
Speaker 1 00:06:38 And, uh, I was preaching and we had, no, we had no lead guitarist. And so, um, our worship leader like begged me to play. And I was like, that's really weird if I'm like playing guitar and then I go preach. And so I did that. I was feeling in my spirit and then this critical man looked at me and he goes, huh? After the service, he goes sick. It's Michael show here. And I was like, okay, I get it. Even though his heart was super critical. Sure. I spent quite a bit of time praying about that. And it was very quickly after that the Lord was like, you're done playing guitar in church. Every time you play, you're taking away someone else's opportunity to grow and develop. I want you to ask to hear, I've been asked a hundred times to play Eveleigh church and I'm just like, no, the spirit is not giving me permission to, um, and lo and behold we've always had what we needed.
Speaker 2 00:07:22 Well, right. Yeah. Like I think of that too. Like there was something that village church needed. Um, so you backing off of that thing because you have this other gifts that you need to pour yourself into this other responsibility that you have. So you're going to pour yourself into that. And the spirit is equipping this like the church to fill those spots. So
Speaker 4 00:07:39 It's interesting. The thread through your story that you just shared was you never gave up being, or learning the skill that God gave you. You just didn't know what it was. Yep. So the skill that God gave you as a young person was used in a specific way. And the skill that God gave you, the speak was used in a specific way, but the thread was, you were always willing to be, to be used for God's glory. And so you learned leadership skills through leading guitar with guitar. And now you're learning leadership skills as a senior pastor by preaching every Sunday. And so there is there's that common thread where your skill is being developed. You just didn't know what it was.
Speaker 1 00:08:19 So John Piper had this statement that changed my life. And I was 19 when I heard it. And he said, um, I was petrified to speak in public, but I've made a vow to the Lord. I will never ever, ever say no to preaching. Um, if I'm ever asked, no matter how nervous I am, um, I will always respond with a yes, even though I'm super nervous. I remember the Lord is like that. That is for you, Michael. And so I try to avoid speaking in public, but everywhere I went, people were like, you should teach. You should do that. And I'm like, I'm a quivering, bumbling mess. And the spirit bypassed my weakness. And if there was any fruit from that, it was all the spirit of God, because I was a bumbling.
Speaker 4 00:08:59 You didn't know what your skill was. No, but it came out by your surrendering your, through the different aspects of life. I will do this. It's not time to do that anymore. Now I will try this, even though I'm scared, but you're surrendering, allowed God to develop the skill that he already gave you and wanted to develop in you. That's, that's an interesting concept because I've met a lot of folks that want to have a specific skill and they, they try and they try, but it's pretty clear through, through their attempts that they're just not skilled that way. And they need somebody to come to them and say, listen, I just don't think that's it. And you risk a relationship when you do that. But ultimately, affirmation of this skill that God has given to you comes
Speaker 1 00:09:40 Through. Yup. Which is awesome. Like you just have to be humble. Yeah. There, there are some people who are really bad at some things, but I see all the potential in them. And like, if you invest in that and the spirit wants to do this, I have a hunch. God could use that for quite a bit of good. There's a guy at our church, his name's David Torres. And David was our worship director for awhile and Davie plays. He leads, worship and plays lead guitar while David was not a lead guitarist, Davey was less than adequate at strumming acoustically. And, and, uh, this was about the time when I was pulling out and he's like, we need a logic tart. So he actually trained himself how to play lead guitar. Uh, and he went from not no lead whatsoever to being probably one of the most competent lead guitars we have in a worship environment.
Speaker 1 00:10:23 And, and then he would start training everybody. And what I watch is I watched him put in the effort, I watched the spirit amplify his skill, and then the fruit as he has worked with all of our league guitarists. And now we have a handful of lead guitars, many of whom we, we point directly to Davey and his influence. And, uh, but that was a moment where, you know, like, didn't have a lot of skill invested in the spirit, put a prompting on him. The people affirmed it and he has been an unbelievable blessing behind the scenes. Most people have no idea to village church in so many
Speaker 2 00:10:51 Levels. Okay. So can I just like take what we're talking about? Like I almost want to scrap all of our notes entirely
Speaker 3 00:10:57 That way, make it on this and kind of just,
Speaker 2 00:10:59 Uh, say one thing, because I think there is a thread here, which is kind of an open handed humility to what the spirit wants to do and not my priorities in terms of what I want to do. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:11:12 I've got great ideas and the spirit is regularly. Like,
Speaker 2 00:11:14 That's cute right now. We're doing something right. And then like, how do you listen to that? Well, I mean, yes, you, I there's, there's an interaction with God. There's a life of prayer and understanding what he wants you to do. But then there's also like listen to the people of God when they talk to you, when they tell you don't do that,
Speaker 4 00:11:29 Do that. And remember the promise. The promise is, if you allow God to develop the skills he wants to develop in you, you will bear fruit that lasts, and you don't want fruit that just lasts for a little while, right? You want, you want Jesus promises that you will bear fruit and that fruit will remain what that means is whatever you're doing, whatever God's doing through you to develop the skill that he wants to use for his kingdom will have impacts on to come. It won't just be a flash in the pan. You're going to have the ability to impact people for the kingdom. And that lasts not just in this life, but in the life to come. I think about that sometimes like, you know, being a preacher is, is kind of a weird thing because you don't wake up one morning and go, Hey, I think I'm going to be a preacher.
Speaker 4 00:12:10 And now it's, it's a path that God leads you on. That's different for every preacher. But ultimately it comes by surrendering saying, okay, I'll try that. It scares me to death, but I'll try it. Okay. I made a fool of myself, but I'm going to get back up and do it again. And, and there's a process that goes through. And then, then I sit down, I think to myself, God has given me this, this, this, this gift. That's no, no greater than this guy was working on the tabernacle. He literally was making furniture, but God bragged on this guy. And we have a tendency to rank our skills like Craig preaches. But nobody who makes furniture is ever going to be remembered in this guy's in scripture. Like nobody can do this, but this guide because God God gave him this gift. But I think to myself, you know, God has given me a gift where I get to impact people's lives and see relationships changed and see reconciliation and see surrender and see, see, not only a mom and dad come to the Lord, but their whole family changed. And then their kids change for, for, for, for eternity. It's such a blessing. When you look at your skills and say, how can God use my skill for eternity changes your whole perspective.
Speaker 1 00:13:18 As a, as a somebody in my twenties, I've tried to be great at a ton of things. And I ended up being decent at one or two. And I think that's the story. Like, you know, you just try things and you try to do it for the glory of God. And you listen to people around you and you see
Speaker 0 00:13:33 Where the spirit bears fruit through you. And even if you don't, you know, you're like, ah, I was not good. But if the spirit bears fruit, I love it follow. So, all right, you guys, that was fun. I enjoyed these conversations and I hope you guys enjoy them. We have so many more sermon QA, so, and invite you to join us next time.
